Love nihilism 

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“Love nihilism” is a concept I came up with about a year ago. I realized I need something like this when I noticed love being inserted more and more in political activism. At the core, “love nihilism” means criticism of love as a universal virtue, refusal to place love above any other emotion a person may experience, and refusal to view love (or lack of it) as something that changes the nature of someone’s actions. 

So, what’s my problem with love?

In my original nnia post on love nihilism (you may need an account to view), I argued that love is just a feeling, it cannot substitute respect for boundaries, knowledge how to be a good friend/parent/partner, and it should not grant you a special status of a person who “knows best”. All these things I protested were something I periodically hear in paraphiliac communities – zoo and, less often, map – claims that experiencing love towards children or animals makes us ideal caretakers.

This kind of rhetoric is doubly wrong. First of all, because, in context of orientations, we’re dealing with  “love” as a synonym for “attraction”. Loving a child as a map means finding this child attractive – sexually, romantically, tertiary. This is different from wishing the best for this child in the same way male heterosexuality is different from being personally invested in supporting and uplifting some woman and helping her become her best self. Yes, it’s good when these things go together – but they don’t always do that, and it’s important to talk about the difference. And if you actually want to be a positive presence in the life of someone you find attractive, you need to know it will not automatically happen without any work on your part. On a side note, I don’t want to redefine minor attraction and claim people who can’t, or don’t yet, experience a strong emotional need to be good to children are not true maps. You’re a map if you find young people attractive. That’s the end of it.

Second, even loving someone in the most general sense, just wishing them to be well without any sexual or romantic components, does not mean you have the means to actually do good. “Love is not abuse, abuse is not love” is a mantra from “wellness” blogs that many people find comfort in, but real life has many examples of loving people turning into abusers – because they believe they know the other person’s real needs better than the person themself, because they don’t accept any feedback or criticism. Most abusive parents actually love their children, and that trying to make love and abuse into two incompatible opposites makes it harder to recognize abuse. I know it from personal experience.

Third, not only it is possible to love and still do wrong, you can also feel no love and do right. Because, again, good companionship is a skill you cultivate. Not an emotion in your head. This resembles my stance on empathy, as someone who has little to no empathy. 

In other words, I protest dragging love into activism for these reasons:

  1. It’s shifting the focus from love-as-attraction to love-as-caring. This goes too close to thought-policing and claiming that maps whose thoughts are not virtuous enough are not real maps.
  2. It does not encourage loving people to look deeper into themselves and change what they’re doing. It allows abusers comfort to continue abusing and makes it harder for the victims to speak up.

I also invite everyone to read this rather good essay about why so much focus on love can hurt, written by a person who does not feel love and was abused for it by people who do. It was eye-opening for me when I first read it. 

Finishing, I would also like to remind that attaching moral goodness and inherent virtues to identities (like orientation, gender, ethnicity) is never a good political move. It may bring you a temporary peace of mind if you’ve been told for years that your feature makes you a bad person, but it will not result in anything good long term. Just more denial, more lies, and hatred.

4 responses to “Love nihilism ”

  1. […] that it brings more attention to this aspect of the community. This post will heavily overlap with my post on love nihilism, as well as an older post about some unfortunate tendencies in pro c spaces that I did not transfer […]

  2. […] For me personally, being anti contact overlaps with being pro youthlib because I include opposition to sexual and romantic acts with children that happen within family into my contact stance. Parents often, completely legally, involve themselves with their children in ways that are traumatizing for the child. This can take form of forcing sexual conversations onto children, sexual physical punishments, like spanking, monitoring children for masturbation. It also may be romantic actions, like trying to persuade children they’re bonded forever and should be the priority number one. I firmly believe that all of this needs to go. It may be impossible to change these parents themselves, but their role in the children’s lives can be artificially lessened to the point that they don’t have a way to impose themselves. My opposition to sexual/romantic acts from strangers is mostly an extension of the above. I see allowing child/adult relationships as strengthening another axis of abuse, abuse that can coincide with or replace abuse from parents. Our society is bad at recognizing abuse that comes from a place of love and care, and it certainly does not teach children to recognize it. I wrote more on the topic of love as a masking tool of abuse in my older post on love nihilism.  […]

  3. ralsei fan Avatar
    ralsei fan

    To preface, so that you don’t associate me with exclusionary arguments, I believe all attractions are okay (attractions =/= actions), and that no particular feeling is required to act in a good way.

    Reading this, I feel erased. I’m genuinely not sure if you know that beings like me exist. Because of lines like this:
    “in context of orientations, we’re dealing with ‘love’ as a synonym for ‘attraction’. Loving a child as a map means finding this child attractive – sexually, romantically, tertiary. This is different from wishing the best for this child”

    Care is a primary feeling of my orientation. I care about and adore children. I wish for them to be happy and flourish. My tendency to feel this way is not a choice, it’s simply how my mind is. Even when I fantasize sexually, I tend to feel cared for by the child and and caring about them.

    Orientations can be more than just “sexual/romantic attraction” in a vacuum. Care and love can be primary to orientations. Orientations can include any and all sorts of feelings, as long as those feelings are part of the package of mental traits that make up an orientation.

    Orientations can even include “felt ideals”. Anyone who genuinely believes they are an “ideal caretaker” may have such a “felt ideal” that they may or may not yet recognize as part of their orientation! And it’s okay for one to embody their felt ideals in harmless ways (like being a good caretaker), just not to force them on others (like saying “all youth-oriented beings must be caretakers”, or “all youth-oriented beings experience love”, etc). Honestly, I suspect this post was informed by your own felt ideals too.

    Anyways, back on the main topic. Care and love are central to my experience; so, “childlover” describes my orientation. I don’t see “childlover” as an alternative to the more-general labels “child-oriented” or “child-attracted”, because not everyone feels love; it’s just a more specific variant for those who do and identify with it. Labels exist to describe ourselves.

    I am genuinely not sure if it’ll be news to you that beings like me exist. But many child-oriented beings I’ve met have similar strong feelings of love and caring, and share the felt ideal. Again, it’s okay for someone not to; all orientations are valid; attraction =/= action. But to deny us the label is wrong. To define us out of existence is wrong.

    It’s okay if you did it out of genuine unawareness though. I think you’re a good being motivated by the principle that all beings matter; your worry about oppression of future sentient AIs, mentioned in another post of yours, demonstrates this. I really wish coalitions formed on such basis instead of by particular beliefs/ideologies. I consider us allies at least. I’m open to being friends :3

    Also there’s probably a more general wrong going on where “felt ideals” are taken to be general truths and inform one’s political beliefs, instead of part of one’s orientation (and optionally, who one is, if you choose to embrace said ideal into your self-concept).

    It’s interesting that the words “boylove” and “girllove” exist historically. It’s possible most users of these words experience loving emotions. But we shouldn’t act like they describe everyone, or like not experiencing love makes someone a bad person. It doesn’t.

    “third, not only it is possible to love and still do wrong, you can also feel no love and do right”
    Of course! That is not a reason to be “against” love and empathy!

    1. Anemoen (Lecter A.A. Wierstamann) Avatar

      I feel like you missed the word “tertiary” in my text. What you’re describing about yourself still falls under the spectrum of tertiary attractions.

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