So the other day I received an anon ask from someone who introduced as an ex Newgon member, and this ask caused a large drama.
The anon took issue with Newgon defending sex acts with babies, and I responded that it’s a part of a bigger issue, and posted the ask and the response to nnia, labeling it as “ewgone discussion”. Several people came to comment, including Jamal himself (Strategist@youjo.love, the main Newgon admin). I want to present juxtaposition of what is said about Newgon and what is actually written on Newgon.
“Said literally no one but yourself.
This was never a disagreement on the server, since no member I am aware of is an infantilist.
I am an ally of infantophiles, but have never felt the need to agitate for sexual contact with infants, nor has anybody on my server. I have close relatives within that age range.” (Strategist@youjo.love)
“When you accuse someone of supporting baby rape, you usually are expected to provide evidence. Not blind rage when weasel words like “many” and “seem” fail to persuade.” (HinamizawaShokogun22@youjo.love)
“Research: Nonwestern Intergenerational Relationships – and its resources such as Growing Up Sexually, includes many references to Nepi-compatible behaviours among primitive people (baby play).”
Not inherently an endorsement itself, and the page includes a mention of anti contact ethics, but that “primitive people” was a jarring thing to read nevertheless.
Now let’s proceed to endorsements.
A sample activist response from their activist model page:
“If you were to pressure me, for example as an ethnographer or a missionary documenting erotic play between adults and infants in a “primitive” society where there is no taboo on that kind of thing, then I would certainly not be the person who calls in a western NGO to investigate such behaviors as “crimes”.”
The “I’m not saying anything, but you should totally look at these primitive societies having sex with babies and being totally ok” kind of argument seems to be the leitmotif here.
From their page on youth sexuality:
“The British psychoanalyst, Rosine Perelberg (2007), wrote that, “The ‘right’ amount of erotism is crucial, so that it is not too much, overexciting the child, or too little, without an erotic investment for the baby, which is also so crucial for its relationship with its own body.” […] One father asked the Maternal and Child Health Nurse if his 4-month-old son could be jealous of the parents “being intimate” – when the baby was lying on the bed beside his parents he cried loudly whenever his father touched his wife’s breasts (McWilliams, pers. comm.14.8.07). Male observers have reported 15-week-old girl babies acting flirtatiously with them.”
Paired with their pages on sexual repression and necessity of touch and intimacy for minors, they seem to be pushing for the idea that sex needs to be integrated into the child’s life the earlier, the better, or else the child will grow up a psychopath or a paraphiliac.
Their page on nonwestern intergenerational relationships:
“Sex play was common practice from the earliest ages among the Marquesa and not only tolerated but encouraged. (Kardiner, 1939, p. 205-206). They recognized the erotic impulse in childhood and accorded it the right of free exercise. They eroticized the child by masturbating it to keep it quiet. In the case of the girls, labia were manipulated as a placebo, but also to encourage the growth of large labia, which to the Marquesans was a mark of beauty.”
“Among the Balinese, play and teasing with the genitals is common. A mother will pat her baby girl on the vulva and exclaim, “Pretty! Pretty!” (Bateson and Mead, 1942, p. 26, 32, 131). A boy’s penis will be stroked and rubbed. After he has urinated, he will be dried by a flick of his penis. As he grows older, his penis will be pulled and stretched and ruffled, and he will often attempt to keep his balance when learning to walk by holding on to it. Babies are comforted and quieted by manipulating their genital organs. In fact, in Bali, a baby, especially a baby’s genital, is a toy with which to play. There is much delight taken in stimulating and playing with the baby to watch him respond.“
Whatever your contact stance on sex with babies is, you have to admit that treating someone’s genitals as toys and jerking them off to pacify them is not an expression of one’s autonomy and sexuality. It is exploitation of the child for adults’ entertainment or convenience. And very much in line with general parental abuse of children.
Most of the things posted above, except for the activist model extract, are themselves quotes from other writings that Newgon recommends as educational resources. They’re gathered together on their respective pages, information about sex with babies next to information about sex with 12 year olds, without any extra comments other than “this is how these things work out, despite what the American media wants you to believe.” Most of the edits on these pages are done by accounts called JohnHolt, which is Jamal’s personal account, and TheAdmins, which is an account Jamal co runs.
Why are these people insincere about what they keep on their own wiki? It’s hard to say without a longer dialogue about this issue, but my previous dialogue attempts with Jamal were consistently derailed, and yesterday I defederated him and his friend from nnia altogether, on the basis of them harassing another person in my mentions (“get therapy”, “take meds”, “we can see how traumatized you are from how unhinged you are” are the highlights). However, I have no doubt that this post of mine will reach other Newgon editors, and I’m open to trying to talk to someone else.