Zoosadism – what it is and what it isn’t

A new addition to my series of articles on zoosadism and zoosadists’s place in the zoo community (1, 2, 3).

Last year I made two surveys on the topic of zoosadism – one was addressing the zoosads, another was addressing the general zoo community.

The first one was spread privately in dms between zoosadists, it asked a range of questions about various aspects of zoosadism and has received 20 responses.

Zoosadism was most commonly defined as “attraction to animals in pain” or “attraction to animal pain”. 75% respondents were positive their zoosadism is a part of zoophilia. 80% stated their zoosad feelings have a species preference. A majority of people reported their zoosadism includes nonsexual feelings. 80% stated they have a nonsadistic attraction to animals as well. None expressed support for abuse, and most explicitly condemned abuse. Most respondents said that being accepted and listened to about their experience is what they want most from the society. I hid the detailed results of the survey under this preview to avoid cluttering, feel free to click on this paragraph and read them for extra info.

Question 1: What’s your personal definition of zoosadism?

  1. Usually sexual or romantic (sometimes platonic) attraction to animal suffering and animals being hurt.
  2. sexual arousal at the thought of performing an act of sadism upon an animal
  3. zoophilia + sadism
  4. For me it’s like sadism but towards non-human animals
  5. Attraction to hurting and/or hurt non-human animals
  6. An attraction to animals in pain.
  7. Personally, it is the desire and attraction to hurting/killing animals for personal gratification, which also applies to seeing other people doing it (for me).
  8. a sexual, romantic, or other type of attraction to atleast on type of nonhuman animal in some type of pain or in pain in general regardless of actions
  9. attraction to causing harm or pain to non-human animals
  10. A sadistic attraction to non human animals
  11. Attraction to harming nonhuman animals in some way.
  12. attraction to hurting animals
  13. attraction to animal pain
  14. attraction to animals in pain
  15. the attraction to the pain of nonhuman animals
  16. Deriving pleasure or arousal by an animal feeling fear, distress, or pain.
  17. An arousal from sadistic acts towards animals.
  18. attraction to seeing harm inflicted upon non human animals.
  19. Zoosadism is the derivation of sexual gratification from inflicting physical/psychological pain on an animal.
  20. A sexual arousal to the psychological idea and/or physical action of doing actions to a non-human being for the purpose of taking gratificaiton of its physical and/or mental pain and displays of it.

Questions 2-4 (1, 2, and 4 are single choice, 3 is multiple choice):

Question 6: Describe your experiences with participating in online paraphilia-centered communities.

  1. Our host started out on paraphile Tumblr, first for hybristophilia, then for necrophilia, then the big three (pedophilia, zoophilia, necrophilia) and in radqueer spaces that overlap with proship fandomposting spaces. Host was very Anti C at first, them Complex C. Left Para Tumblr due to antis being aggressive. Joined NNIA and Pediverse in general, am also in Matrix and Discord Para groups we found on Pedi. By Pediverse is when the rest of the system joined. We mostly just talk to the host and close mutual friends.
  2. mixed bag.
  3. n/a
  4. In general I always had good experiences since the most people in the Paracommunity are open minded. But I don’t really interact with zoo-only spaces because of all the hatred there against other paraphilias.
  5. Pretty good
  6. I mostly spend time in the map community, which is rather accepting of my zoosadist orientation. I don’t hang out in zoo spaces because of anti zoosad bigotry, as well as other types of bigotry being more common.
  7. Overall, I would say the experience has been surprisingly pleasant. I have done my best to avoid negativity and drama through the years, and most individuals have been very open-minded and understanding. However, there definitely have been negative moments and encounters (such as those facing antis and contact stances).
  8. some are more casual like kink ace spaces or abdl spaces where im thankful to talk about specific things but the trend to other people that are more controversial makes me feel like walking a tightrope. in zoo spaces in the past on discord and forums, i was the only one open about being a zoosadist. where i would after a bit get banned ussually. but I had so many in those spaces, including server owners, come to me in private to reveal they were a zoosadist themselves but were not brave enough to be open. I also had one person (wintergreen) tell me i should be more open about it, in a specific way. and when i did i was sexually harassed, sexualized, faced ableism. What I have found is spaces that claim they are pure and so good inherently and quick to ostracize, im all at risk.
  9. i originally found the zoophile community on twitter, but then through twitter i found the anti-contact community on discord, and i’ve been in a few different servers since then. i don’t feel comfortable around pro-cs, so i only stay in anti-c communities for now. the communities i’m more active in seem to be accepting of anti-contact zoosadists, so i don’t feel like i’m seen as dangerous for my attractions or whatever in these spaces.
  10. Both negative and positive. A lot of zoo spaces are very anti sadist and do not understand or hold space for those who are anti abuse.
  11. Generally fairly positive aside from harassment and such.
  12. I mainly participate in zootwt. When I first joined all I found were anti zoosads. I felt (and still do) like I need to hide being an anti-c zoosad. I hear a lot of talk about how all zoosads need to die n r bad. Really disheartening. But other than that I have found zoos who do support zoosads and I’ve made a community and mutuals with them, I feeel safer and more comfortable in the alef zoo community and the para community than the zeta zoo community as a zoosadistic zoophile
  13. ive been in them a few years under a bunch of different names
  14. other paraphiles have generally been accepting but I have been blocked by many zoos, especially zeta zoos, for seemingly no reason. one zoo even talked about wanting to kill me.
  15. I’ve been active on-and-off in various communities since the early 2010s, mainly related to being a pedo, zoo, or heavy sadism. In rough chronological order, I went from sketchy darkweb message boards, to Tumblr, to Reddit, and since then some smaller sites. Depending on the platform, I’ve found it both helpful and detrimental to my mental health.
  16. There’s a lot of disagreement on definitions and more people should coin their own terms with respects to current definitions.
  17. over all positive, it helped me accept my paraphilias and now I find them only slightly and periodically distressing while before I would describe them as very and constantly distressing. I developed friendships and have had all positive or neutral experiences with individuals identifying as para. although I have only been in para spaces since November.
  18. It’s nice to be able to express my identity freely in a similar environment, and to meet open-minded people to discuss paraphilias with, learning something new about myself and others. It feels less lonely, and I feel somewhat less ashamed knowing I’m not the only one carrying the burden of this attraction. People are willing to listen to me and help me figure out who I am – I plan to help others, too, on the journey.
  19. There really isn’t any sort of experience, because there isn’t really a space for that kind of thing. Zoos attempt to portray this “hollier-than-thou” approach to zoosadism and either actively shut down any discussion of it in any context, or attempt to use it as a general insult for somebody who they subjectively believe does not “respect animals” or ZETA principles in general.

Question 7: Describe your ideological views, e.g. views on animal abuse, zeta principles, para activism.

  1. Pro Consent, Pro Contact for anything that can be done with consent, and thus their legalization. We believe that includes pedo, zoo, and necro. Animals can consent, but one needs to understand their body language and how they communicate so they know if the animal is uncomfortable. Consideration to biology should be made though. For example, some animals should not be penetrated by a human penis because it would cause the animal’s injury or death. We would not consider ourselves ZETA, just Pro Contact Zoophiles. We don’t like ZETA’s hate for “fetish seekers”, as we support all bestiality so long as it’s consensual. It’s very anti acearo to be mad at beings for having fetish sex because it feels good, and to assume that means they don’t care about their wellbeing. Though we’re attracted to animals romantically and sexually.
  2. i don’t know anything about the zoo community really. my perspective about that isn’t very informed, so i wont comment on that. i would never do zoosadistic activities in real life, since i’m personally not capable of bonding with animals and struggle to read their cues.
  3. n/a
  4. Animal Abuse – It’s hot as fuck but nothing you should do and Support in real life. Living beings should ALWAYS be respected. Zeta principles – It’s a nice idea but I am unsure about the fetishist part. Para activism – It’s very important and we need to do more. It can safe so many lifes.
  5. animal abuse sucks. idk I’m too tired to answer the other questions.
  6. I’m against both animal abuse and zeta principles. The first one is self explanatory, the second one is due to negativity towards fetishists and lack of any care for diversity and inclusionism in the zoo community. I’m a para activist and I consider zoophilia to be a paraphilia.
  7. I believe that paraphilic individuals should be comfortable when talking about their attractions, if they wish to do so. Personally, I am contact neutral and keep my nose out of stance disagreement. I see all sides, in a way.
  8. i think everything should be taken in the views of benefit vs detriment in u.s. cause cheese caves, there is no ethical benefit to vegan over vegetarian, so usage of progesterone to prevent forced births then taken away is great harm reduction. 45% of people have poor vitamin A conversion from plants. some worse then others. some intolerant of milk and allergic to eggs. which means has to come from livers or blood. retinol (meat vitamin A) is typically extracted from fish liver, but their are methods to extract from blood. which you can do a process to take blood consistently without death. many ways can be used to optimize benefit vs detriment as for zeta principles. im against most of them cause they dont care bout lowering harm, but rather looking better. and they inherently promote hatred of other attractions para activism should be about helping all. cause anti para mentality can hurt all. viewing attractions as neutral. nd going against the trend of using attraction as good/bad
  9. i am anti-contact and pro-paraphilia. i believe sexual contact with non-human animals is wrong in basically any real-world context, and explicit animal abuse is unambiguously immoral. the attractions to non-human animals or animal abuse, however, are harmless on their own, and so there should be no shame in having them, talking about them, or expressing them through art.
  10. Very against abuse, vegan for most of my life, active with animal welfare and protection, passionate about animal psychology, training behavior etc. believes in Zeta Principles but has problem with the ‘gatekeeping puritanical dogma’ of most ZETA zoos. Para activism is important for both those who are para and potential partners/non humans and victims.
  11. -Animal abusers need to have a chance to understand why what they did was wrong and then improve as people, if they refuse to improve as people and stop harming animals then there should be work done to prevent them from getting a chance to harm animals in the future -ZETA could be the first wave of good zoo activism to allow other para advocacy if they didn’t allow really bigoted people with foul ass views to have such a big part in the community with as much respect under their name as they have. I think the ZETA principles themselves are outdated and need drastic reworking. – I think it’s a blessing that we can organize para activism through the internet right now because this is going to be a hell of a fight, probably even worse than the mainstream queer rights movement.
  12. I like zeta principals I agree with them. I also like and agree with alef principles. I try to do paraactivism as well but im not good cause i have trouble articulating words and if im banned thats it. I am fully against animal abuse now as an adult, but when I was younger i did used to act on it. I’m ashamed sincerely. It is wrong, it was wrong.
  13. animal abuse is horrid zeta principles are well intentioned but poorly executed, id probably be a full time zeta with a bit of a rework on the principles and further evolution of the community zoos are paraphiles and as such we should all collaborate in destigmatization efforts
  14. I am strongly against animal abuse and believe we need better laws to protect animals. I disagree with the zeta principles because I’m against bestiality and find the the anti-fetishist part hypocritical. also I believe all attractions should be destigmatized, but any harmful actions should be strongly discouraged and being pro-c for things like zoosadism should also be discouraged.
  15. I’m pretty out of the loop on specific labels related to this sort of thing to describe my beliefs that way, but I feel in a way that is the inverse of a “typical” person in some ways. As in, I think a lot of interactions or treatment of animals accepted as normal by general society amounts to heinous cruelty (fish bowls/hamster balls/etc), whereas other people would feel that same way but about zoophilic actions I perceive neutrally (having no benefit nor negative effects on the animal). A lot of people are shockingly uneducated about the species they share a planet with or even choose to bring into their homes, which I think needs changing. Generally, I think if someone deliberately does something that they know is physically hazardous to the wellbeing of another being, they need to face repercussions in some form.
  16. I’m against animal abuse in all forms. I consider bestiality a form of animal sexual abuse, and romantic relations with an animal pretty odd.
  17. I believe that there might be situations where an animal can theoretically consent, most times it is very dubious and there is more room for abuse than not. over all I don’t think beastiality should be legalised for this very reason. and I believe that zoosadism should never be practised as an animal cannot possibly give consent or state discomfort or gain pleasure from a sadistic situation like how a person could in BDSM. for the Zeta principles I suppose they are good on paper, though I so not personally like the zeta movement but I will not alienate members if they seem to be good. although the principles strike me as more for show than an actual practical guideline. what does promoting zoophilia even mean and how can you tell if someone is “just a ferishist”? seems more a thing to point to to seem more palatable for the common normie but what do I know.
  18. I am strongly opposed to animal abuse. In my view, animals are creation of God and deserve the utmost respect. Killing or hurting an animal for profit or for enjoyment is serious moral failing. Animals deserve love, it’s what every creature seeks and what every creature deserves to find, humans included. Animals can be especially vulnerable, I feel many zoophiles underestimate the consent argument. I’ve never aligned much with the ZETA principles, despite being a zoo and loving my animals, and I’m new to the para scene. Idk much about ZETA, but I feel no need to live by a code or guidelines to treat animals ethically. It feels fanatical, and its members are known to discriminate against other paras. I have little faith in para activism bringing social change, but at least it fosters communities where people can find support and friends. It warms my heart.
  19. I believe zoosadism is ethically harmful. There is no reasonable moral justification for them unless you are willing to abandon any sort of coherent moral code. I am mixed on non-sadistic zoophilia, as the ZETA principles assume that consent can be indicated fairly easily from the body language of the animal. The same arguments are used often by those who sexually interact with minors, and I assume that we’ve all heard the stories from those who were SA’d in childhood who said that they were traumatized by the experience. I don’t really think that passive sexual interaction (i.e, letting the animal interact with you instead of you interacting with it) that a lot of biological and/or trans female zoophiles do. We need to increase clinical services and decrease stigma for “predatory” paraphilia to reduce harm, and reduce taboos on sexuality in general. A lot of contact offenders gain their attraction in adolescence, and often comment that they were afraid to seek help before the crime.

Question 8: What do you think you need most from the community/the society?

  1. Moderating bigotry more would be nice. Host has faced a lot of racism on Pedi. Slurs get flung around and it’s annoying. Societally? Stop making consensual love/sex illegal. Legalize both the acts/relationships and their fictional variants, like drawn porn, writing, paraphilic sex dolls (like child sex dolls), so on. Also respect for all transids and further research into physical transition for them. Allow public paraphile pride.
  2. a philly cheesesteak and a bad bitch to give me some head
  3. acceptance
  4. Acceptance and respect.
  5. More koala appreciation 🐨
  6. Acceptance, respect, inclusion in discussions about our identities and in conversations on the topic of marginalization and stigma as a whole.
  7. I want to be heard at the very least.
  8. end to bigotry. end to exclusion. end to have it worse then you or im better then you mentality. aknowldgement of nuance. work together instead of divide. aknowledge that it’s in peoples selfish interest, to help. end to allowed discrimination or punishments for existence or nonharmful things
  9. i wish i could feel safe to be open about my identity and that society in general would understand that paraphilias are harmless in and of themselves.
  10. Understanding of sadism not = actions, that attractions are unchosen and do not define a moral character
  11. What I need most from society is mental health resources that aren’t super dangerous.
  12. Acceptance. Understanding. Help/coping mechanisms/advice. No more being forced to hide it and burry it and let it build and fester inside me.
  13. a place to exist safely
  14. just acceptance and tolerance
  15. Acknowledgement and broader education that there is a difference between attraction and action.
  16. Accessible and private mental health resources and professional help.
  17. emotional support/reassurance, I am a very shame sensitive yet negative-attention seeking being so it is crucial for me to have a source of positive attention towards parts lf myself that I would otherwise view as shameful, if I do not I will become self destructive and seek negative attention for said parts
  18. Friends, fantasy outlets maybe, answers, in-depth analysis of (zoo)sadistic behavior, more exploration in general of the paraphilia, acceptance, support.
  19. Just in general, more recognition by clinicians and society to help rather than shun those with harmful urges in general, and a safe place to speak in a constructive manner to the maximum extent that the law and hosting service of the platform allows.

Question 9: Anything else?

  1. nope :w
  2. People don’t need to understand me but at least have some respect.
  3. there are much more zoosadists then most zetas will aknowledge. I predict 40% of zoophiles
  4. i’m also a sadist and a zoophile separately, so maybe my zoosadism is just a combination of the two, but it could also be a sort of coping mechanism? when i first realized i was a zoophile, i felt terrible about myself for months, and maybe i’ve sorta dealt with that shame by embracing it and imagining myself doing terrible things to non-human animals.
  5. Thank you for this Lecter! We need more zoosadist rep and community
  6. I hope that the larger zoo community becomes a little less hostile to zoosadists soon, I can see hints of it sometimes and it’s a blessing.
  7. I think zoosadism can be acted on ethically only when it’s towards a consenting transspecies individual, furry, alterhuman/nonhuman, therian, otherkin, kemonomimi, (someone born as human but identifies as non-human for whatever reason) whatever. but for cisspecies animals (someone born as an non-human animal) it is just absolutely unethical to act on and wrong.
  8. nope
  9. I can’t really think of much else but I don’t like the “zoosadism is an intersection between zoophilia and sadism“ definition that’s commonly used. it’s not always an overlap of those two paraphilias. I’m not a zoophile as I don’t experience attraction to animals in that way.
  10. I personally don’t think zoosadism is limited to sexual arousal.
  11. apologies if my answers stray a bit off topic.
  12. More surveys, please!

The second survey, in contrast, was aiming at the general zoo community. It asked only one question – is zoosadism a type of zoophilia – and offered a field for a write-in answer. I received a total of 103 votes and 55 of them also provided additional comments.

Because I primarily spend time in alef centered communities rather than zeta, it created a positive bias – 63.7% voted to include zoosadism in zoophilia and only 26.5% were explicitly against (the rest were undecided). But my purpose while creating this second survey was not to evaluate the degree of acceptance of zoosadism in the whole zoo community, it was to gather arguments of its opponents in one place for analysis.

Here are some of the negative responses I received:

  1. By itself alone I think not. Zoophilia has more to do with love and romance, whilst zoosadism is more of a sexual attraction only…
  2. Zoophilia involves love for animals, and I don’t think the desire to hurt animals is love for them.
  3. I do not believe that zoosadism is a type of zoophilia, because the object of attraction is not the animals themselves, but rather the object of attraction is an experience the animals are having or a situation the animals are in. I believe that zoophilia encompasses an attraction to animals, and it is not at all necessary for someone to be attracted to animals in and of themselves to be a zoosadist, so zoosadism does not seem to be a species of zoophilia.
  4. Using current definitions, you could say it is. But I believe that zoophilia, “philia” referring to “love”, and zoosadism are incompatible concepts, and there needs to be a clear separation.
  5. One is the need and yearning to love, care and belong. The other is being attached to some power dynamics and twisted acts. Very conflicting
  6. I consider them mutually exclusive
  7. While zoosadism is related to animals, I believe it to be separate from zoophilia. It is just a type of sadism that is directed at animals. You can be zoosadist while not being a zoo and you can be a regular sadist without being attracted to humans.
  8. Zoophilia, as the name suggests, means love for animals, (philia=love, zoo=animal, both together meaning love for animals;) people don’t want to cause pain on something they love, mentally or physically, (unless they are an actual psychopath)…so no, by the very definition, these are not the same, in fact they are opposites. Zoophilia is not just an attraction, it’s love for animals; zoosadism is the furthest one can get from an attraction based on love for animals…because being sadistic is not loving: one can’t even say it’s an attraction, it’s a predatory desire; because one isn’t looking to please themselves and their partner, only themselves…in fact to please themselves at the expense of the other, ensuring they endure pain while the perpetrator experiences pleasure from it. The day that attraction and or action to causing someone pain, is considered the same as love, is the day I leave this community behind.
  9. I think considering both “positive” attraction and “negative” attraction to fall under the same umbrella term muddies the waters too much, especially since afaik there’s no separate term for “positive” zoophilia. I imagine most zoophile-zoosadists just happen to have two unrelated interests they combined. But it is also possible for e.g. prepubescent children to take non-sexual pleasure in harming animals. The zoosadist label makes sense for these people, the zoophile label does not.
  10. Zoosexuality is an orientation. Zoosadism is an unfortunate fetish.

I must note that anti zoosad zetas who chose to take part in this survey are much more civil and thoughtful that most. Right now, as I am writing it, Lyc and Zoodonym, big name zeta bloggers I already mentioned in my previous zoo themed posts, are leading a separatist campaign again.

Zoodonym’s bizarrely homophobic jab only shows how much out of touch he is with the queer community – an actual watersports pride flag exists, and its design is based on gay men’s hanky code.

The general zoo community is being radicalized against zoosadism by these two shit stirrers and their close friends. But their efforts would be less successful if not several misconceptions around zoosadism that are common in the zoo community.

Misconception 1: zoosadism as harm

Quite a lot of zeta zoos are choosing to interpret zoosadism as an intention to cause harm to animals and as lack of care. They are conflating presence of (irrational and unchosen) feelings with ideological views.

A closely connected belief is that zoosadists are “networking for abuse” – because many zetas cannot imagine a paraphiliac community that is not dedicated to “networking” for sex.

In reality zoosadists often take a principled stance against animal abuse. The attraction does not come from a belief that an animal somehow “deserves” violence or that animals are expendable when it comes to personal enjoyment.

Misconception 2: “just sadism”

Something that popped up recently in discussions related to zoosadism is an idea of a large percentage of people being “just sadists” with no specific interest towards anything else (or very little interest).

While people who are genuinely not attracted to anyone or anything except the idea of sadism do exist (and I have a couple of acquaintances who describe their feelings in such a way), they make up a small minority of all who identify with the sadism label. The same can be said about those whose sadistic attractions form a completely separate vector that isn’t connected to their nonsadistic attractions.

The overwhelming majority of sadists have species preferences, age preferences, and gender preferences factoring in their sadism. Sadism simply describes the direction their fantasies go in. As a sexuality label, sadism was largely developed and explored within queer men’s communities, being a component of these men’s attraction to other men. Sadists of the general kink community seek partners of specific genders, which results in forming micro groups.

While I will never tell an exclusive unspecified sadist that they cannot claim the zoosadist label (or gay label, or anything similar), and I believe they make an important addition to our communities, I do not think they represent the majority of people identifying as zoosadists.

Misconception 3: incompatibility with vanilla zoophilia

Whether zoosadism by itself is zoophilia is one question, but many zeta zoos simply do not believe zooosadists can have vanilla attractions to animals at all.

However, most zoosadists also have sexual/romantic feelings for animals that aren’t sadistic in nature. There is no incompatibility between these things, because a sexuality is not a belief mindset.

Misconception 4: inherent difference of zoophilia from all other paraphilias

This problem is not specific to the zeta understanding of zoosadism, it affects their interactions with all other paraphiliacs, but it also worsens their attitude to zoosadism.

As one of the survey respondents put it, “Zoosexuality is an orientation. Zoosadism is an unfortunate fetish”, or as another Twitter zeta put before, “paras don’t love the way zoos do”. Zeta zoos have a strong belief in uniqueness of their attractions, in uniqueness of their ability to have a wide spectrum of emotions and attachments following their sexuality.

This belief is not specific to zeta. Members of Newgon, an alt right map organization, view their mapness the same way and express the same rejection of being put together with other paraphiliacs. This similarity prompted this comic, which features the Newgon flag on the left, the zoomap flag in the middle, and the zeta flag on the right:

Both are wrong. Mapness and zoophilia have a lot in common, and the same can be said about sadism. All of these orientations feature a variety of feelings, including romantic, and can be experienced in a profound, formative way.

Our demand for inclusion in the zoo community is not a demand for acceptance of abuse or abusive intentions. What we want most is to be heard, not slandered and not harassed by other zoophiles. We want to represent ourselves instead of allowing baseless theorizing about our experiences fester. We want to make the zoo community safer for all kinds of minority identities – in addition to the antipara bias, some big name zeta accounts allow themselves racism, ableism, and transphobia, and these attitudes are rarely challenged. We want other to take seriously threats against our lives, sexual harassment, stalking.

And we will keep pushing for these things.

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